Skip to main content
Search
< All Topics
Print

Kathryn Ruemmler Congressional Transcript Reveals Years of Contact With Jeffrey Epstein

Posted
Updated
ByEpsteinWiki

Snapshot

Kathryn H. Ruemmler is an American attorney who served as White House Counsel to President Barack Obama from 2011 until 2014. She later returned to private practice at Latham & Watkins and joined Goldman Sachs in 2020.

On July 15, 2026, Ruemmler voluntarily participated in a transcribed interview with the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The interview formed part of the Committee investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, federal law enforcement failures, trafficking networks, influence operations, and possible ethics violations.

The Committee released the 171 page Kathryn Ruemmler transcript on July 29, 2026.

Key Takeaways

  • Ruemmler testified that she first met Jeffrey Epstein in July 2014, shortly after leaving the Obama White House.
  • Epstein approached her about a proposed charitable fund that he claimed he was developing with Bill Gates.
  • Epstein later referred Edmond de Rothschild Bank to Ruemmler. She represented the bank while Epstein served as what she described as its primary adviser.
  • Ruemmler estimated that she met Epstein in person approximately 20 times between 2014 and 2019. She also acknowledged frequent emails and telephone calls.
  • Ruemmler maintained that Epstein was never her legal client. However, she acknowledged giving him opinions about legal questions, media coverage, victim litigation, and public responses.
  • She knew that Epstein was a registered sex offender and knew that his Florida criminal case involved prostitution related offenses, including solicitation of a minor.
  • Ruemmler testified that Epstein misrepresented the nature and scope of his conduct. She said she believed his claim that he had not knowingly targeted minors.
  • Documents introduced during the interview showed that Ruemmler discussed possible counterclaims involving Virginia Giuffre, edited a proposed public statement for Epstein, and discussed legal and media strategy with him.
  • Epstein gave Ruemmler flowers, spa services, massages, salon services, an Apple Watch, designer items, gift cards, and a Hermès bag valued by the Committee at approximately $10,000.
  • Ruemmler said she rejected a private aircraft charter card and an invitation to travel aboard Epstein’s aircraft.
  • She testified that she never traveled with Epstein and never visited his Florida residence, New Mexico ranch, or private islands.
  • Ruemmler attended Epstein’s July 2019 arraignment in New York as a member of the public.
  • A draft of Epstein’s will named Ruemmler as a backup executor. She testified that she had not known about the designation and was not named in the final document.
  • Ruemmler said she regretted knowing Epstein and now understood that he used prominent and respectable associates to improve his public legitimacy.

The Congressional Interview

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform conducted Ruemmler’s interview under its authority to investigate the federal response to the crimes of Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

The Committee stated that its investigation also examined how Epstein and Maxwell cultivated influential relationships that could protect their activities or improve their public standing.

Ruemmler appeared voluntarily and was represented by attorneys Paul Fishman, Rachel Cotton, and Jonathan Kravis. Members and staff from both political parties questioned her throughout the interview.

How Ruemmler Met Jeffrey Epstein

Ruemmler testified that Epstein cold called Latham & Watkins in July 2014. She had recently left the White House and was rebuilding her private legal practice.

According to Ruemmler, Epstein claimed that he and Bill Gates were considering a large donor advised fund. Epstein said they needed an attorney to coordinate the legal questions involved in establishing and managing the fund.

The proposed fund did not materialize. However, Epstein soon referred an important banking client to Ruemmler.

The Edmond de Rothschild Bank Connection

Ruemmler identified the shared client as Edmond de Rothschild Bank.

She described Epstein as the bank’s primary adviser and herself as its attorney. She said Epstein remained an important contact in the representation while she developed an independent relationship with the bank and Ariane de Rothschild.

Ruemmler represented the bank until she left Latham & Watkins in 2020. She also testified that Epstein referred approximately three or four other potential clients or matters to her, including a possible civil matter involving Apollo.

The transcript therefore establishes that the relationship was not limited to casual social contact. Epstein functioned as a source of valuable professional referrals and as a continuing intermediary between Ruemmler and a major financial institution.

Frequency and Nature of Contact

Ruemmler testified that Epstein emailed her frequently between July 2014 and July 2019. They also communicated by telephone and met in person.

She estimated that she may have met Epstein approximately 20 times during those five years. These meetings generally occurred at his Manhattan townhouse when he visited New York.

Ruemmler described the relationship as professional and said she was friendly with him because of their shared business interests. She denied that the relationship was romantic or sexual.

Committee members questioned that characterization because some emails used affectionate or personal language. Ruemmler explained that her casual language reflected her normal communication style and did not indicate a romantic relationship.

What Ruemmler Knew About Epstein’s Criminal Record

Ruemmler testified that she learned shortly after meeting Epstein that he had pleaded guilty in Florida in 2008 to two prostitution related offenses. One count involved solicitation of a minor.

She also knew that he received an 18 month sentence, served approximately 13 months, obtained extensive work release privileges, and had received a federal nonprosecution agreement.

According to Ruemmler, Epstein claimed that he paid adult women for sexual services and did not knowingly target minors. She said he portrayed himself as a customer of prostitution rather than a person operating a recruitment and abuse network.

Ruemmler also relied on a letter written by attorney Stephanie Thacker to the Department of Justice. Ruemmler said the letter supported Epstein’s claim that investigators had not established that he intentionally sought minors.

Ruemmler testified that she accepted this explanation until the July 2019 federal indictment alleged that Epstein intentionally recruited and sexually abused minor girls.

Her testimony represents her account of what she believed at the time. It does not alter the documented evidence of Epstein’s abuse, his recruitment system, the accounts of survivors, or the later conviction of Maxwell.

Legal Advice Despite No Formal Representation

Ruemmler repeatedly stated that Epstein was never her legal client. She said there was no engagement agreement and that she received no legal fees or cash payments from him.

However, Ruemmler acknowledged that Epstein requested her legal views. These requests included questions about media reports, the Crime Victims’ Rights Act litigation, civil claims, possible responses to journalists, and other legal matters.

She said she responded as an experienced lawyer whose professional acquaintances frequently requested informal opinions.

The distinction is important. Ruemmler denied representing Epstein, but the documentary record shows that she provided advice and editing assistance that could benefit his legal or public position.

Advice Concerning Survivor Litigation

A September 2015 email introduced as a Committee exhibit showed Ruemmler telling Epstein that she wanted to consider possible counterclaims involving “VR.”

During questioning, Ruemmler acknowledged that the initials could refer to Virginia Giuffre. She said she did not remember the specific context and denied having direct involvement in Giuffre’s litigation.

The underlying email is preserved as EFTA02486838.

Ruemmler also testified that she had been skeptical of some of Giuffre’s allegations at the time. When asked in 2026 whether she believed Giuffre had been a victim of Epstein and Maxwell, Ruemmler initially said she did not know. She then said that if Giuffre identified herself as a survivor, Ruemmler had no reason to doubt that statement.

The exchange is significant because it documents how Epstein obtained informal assistance and credibility assessments from a former federal prosecutor and White House Counsel while survivors were pursuing legal accountability.

The Clinton and Obama Implication Email

An October 2015 email from Epstein described Ruemmler as a good friend and warned that her involvement could create an unnecessary connection involving Clinton and Obama. Epstein also referred to the lawyers around the matter as publicity seeking.

The original email is available as EFTA02484285.

Committee members questioned whether the message meant that Ruemmler had offered to participate in Epstein related litigation. Ruemmler denied offering to appear as Epstein’s defense attorney. She said the fragmented email did not establish that she planned to represent him.

The document does establish that Epstein recognized the political and reputational importance of Ruemmler’s connection to him. It also shows that he considered how her former roles in the Clinton Justice Department and Obama White House could affect public perception.

Editing a Public Statement for Epstein

A December 2018 email showed Ruemmler editing a proposed public statement concerning Epstein’s Florida case and the criticism of his favorable resolution.

Ruemmler acknowledged that the edited statement was intended for Epstein’s benefit. She said it had been drafted by one of Epstein’s attorneys and that she was asked to provide comments.

The evidence appears in EFTA02610779.

This document is among the clearest examples of Ruemmler providing practical assistance to Epstein even though she was not his attorney of record.

Communications About Media Strategy

In April 2015, Epstein forwarded Ruemmler an inquiry from ABC News. The exchange was introduced as EFTA01203719.

Ruemmler also discussed contacting the general counsel of NBC after comments involving Epstein and Donald Trump. She testified that she believed the comments could create legal risk for the network and said she likely made the courtesy call.

That email is available as EFTA02462711.

Ruemmler denied contacting media organizations to advocate for Epstein. However, the evidence shows that she discussed media exposure and possible legal consequences with him.

Questions About Ghislaine Maxwell

Ruemmler testified that she met Maxwell only once.

She said Maxwell and attorney Laura Menninger used a conference room at Latham & Watkins while they were in New York for a legal proceeding. Ruemmler said she briefly introduced herself but did not participate in their meeting.

An email concerning the office meeting appears as EFTA02465272.

Another exhibit involved Epstein asking Ruemmler how attorney Laura Menninger could create a perjury trap. Ruemmler explained general methods of cross examination but denied participating in Maxwell’s litigation. That email appears as EFTA02463487.

Gifts and Material Benefits

Ruemmler acknowledged receiving numerous gifts from Epstein. She said she did not request them and did not interpret them as compensation, romantic gestures, or attempts to influence her.

The gifts discussed during the interview included:

  • Flowers
  • Salon appointments
  • Spa treatments
  • Massages at luxury hotels
  • Hair and makeup services
  • An Apple Watch
  • A Fendi coat and bag
  • Bergdorf Goodman gift cards
  • A Hermès bag that the Committee valued at approximately $10,000
  • An upgrade to first class for a business trip to Geneva

Ruemmler said the Hermès bag was a congratulatory gift after she won a major trial. She also said Epstein gave gifts to other people in his professional network.

She testified that she rejected a private aircraft charter card and declined Epstein’s invitation to travel aboard his aircraft to Paris.

Ruemmler denied receiving cash, wire transfers, loans, forgiven debts, real estate, ownership interests, or direct compensation from Epstein.

Travel and Epstein Properties

Ruemmler testified that she never traveled with Epstein and never flew aboard an aircraft owned or operated by him.

She denied visiting:

Ruemmler acknowledged visiting Epstein’s Paris apartment once. She said she attended a lunch there with Epstein and Ariane de Rothschild.

She also acknowledged numerous meetings at Epstein’s Manhattan townhouse. She said she never saw massage tables, sexual activity, minors, abuse, or suspected trafficking at any Epstein property.

The 2019 Arrest and Arraignment

Ruemmler said Epstein contacted her after his July 2019 arrest. She attended his arraignment as a member of the public.

She testified that she wanted to understand the charges because Epstein had been a primary adviser to an important client. She also expected Ariane de Rothschild to want information about the case.

Ruemmler said she did not speak with Epstein at the arraignment. She ended her communications with him after learning that the indictment accused him of intentionally recruiting minors for sexual abuse.

Draft Will and Backup Executor Designation

A draft of Epstein’s will named Ruemmler as a backup executor.

Ruemmler testified that she did not know about the designation and never agreed to serve. She said she discovered it only after the draft became public.

Her name did not appear as an executor in Epstein’s final will. Ruemmler said she never performed work for his estate and did not request removal because she had not known about the draft designation.

The draft designation remains important because it shows the degree of trust or confidence Epstein claimed to place in Ruemmler.

Goldman Sachs Disclosure

Ruemmler joined Goldman Sachs in April 2020. She testified that she voluntarily disclosed her association with Epstein before accepting the position.

According to Ruemmler, she told Goldman Sachs that Epstein had not been her client but had been an adviser to one of her clients. She also disclosed that Epstein had requested her views about certain matters.

Ruemmler said Goldman Sachs conducted reviews after media reporting in 2023 and again amid renewed scrutiny in 2025 and 2026.

She also testified that she did not provide Goldman Sachs with her Epstein communications and did not believe the gifts required separate disclosure.

Ruemmler’s Explanation and Expression of Regret

Ruemmler told the Committee that Epstein lied to her about his conduct. She said she now understood that he surrounded himself with respected people and used their names to strengthen his public standing.

She expressed regret for accepting the initial meeting, maintaining contact, sending casual emails, accepting gifts, and believing Epstein’s version of his Florida case.

She also stated that she never saw evidence of ongoing criminal activity while interacting with him. Ruemmler said she would have contacted law enforcement if she had witnessed or learned of continuing abuse.

These assertions are Ruemmler’s sworn account. Readers should evaluate them alongside the emails, court records, survivor testimony, financial evidence, and other records documenting Epstein’s broader influence network.

Important Epstein Data Evidence Files

Why the Transcript Matters

The Ruemmler transcript provides a rare, detailed account from a powerful professional who maintained regular contact with Epstein after his 2008 conviction.

It documents how Epstein used referrals, financial connections, gifts, introductions, legal questions, and informal requests for help to cultivate an influential former government official.

The transcript does not establish that Ruemmler participated in Epstein’s trafficking crimes. It does establish that she knowingly maintained a relationship with a registered sex offender, accepted valuable gifts, offered informal legal and media assistance, and interacted with him frequently for approximately five years.

The record also illustrates a broader feature of Epstein’s influence network. His access did not depend only on formal representation or direct payments. It often operated through professional favors, referrals, social familiarity, gifts, and requests framed as casual advice.

Sources

Ruemmler-Final-Transcript_Redact-7.28.26Download
Tags:
Previous Howard Lutnick Transcript: Epstein Neighbor, Island Visit, AdFin Emails, and the Gaps Congress Did Not Close
Next Leon Black Empty Chair Deposition in the House Epstein Investigation
Table of Contents